Sunday, December 12, 2010

Ignorant Atheist Bull Shit

Pardon my tone in this post but I am really beginning to get pissed off. I hear atheists railing about ignorant theist bull shit all the time. But how about some ignorant atheist bull shit, which seems to be all I have been reading lately on various atheist blogs. And the latest example comes to us from Friendly Atheist (which now is a misnomer due to his switch to confrontationalist, i.e. all religion is bad and theists should be treated with contempt).
CFI Canada is running a campaign that states “Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence”. They then have a laundry list of items they classify as “extraordinary”. A columnist responded to CFI’s campaign stating the following:

So why does he care if people believe in God, Allah or the tooth fairy? Atheists are defined by their disbelief. i.e. the biggest thing in their life is that they don’t believe in something. But rather than just go around quietly, not believing, Trottier and his pals feel compelled to make other people not believe either. Their only faith is in the rightness of not having faith.

Isn’t that just a bit strange? I don’t happen to believe basketball is that interesting. Sorry, just don’t. I tried, but it bores me. Mainly I just keep it to myself. But if I was Justin Trottier, I’d be out there raising money to run ads in subways and streetcars, trying to convince other people that basketball is boring. The ads would say: “If you think basketball isn’t boring, you have to prove it. Just like Bigfoot.”

Would that make sense? (Answer: No). And to what end, exactly? If five more people suddenly realize they also don’t care about basketball, have I achieved anything? 
Hemant Mehta, the not-so-friendly Friendly Atheist, responded to the columnist’s comments and it is his response that is part of the ever growing amount of BS spewing out of anti-theists mouths that is driving me up the wall.
We actively fight against extraordinary claims like the ones in the poster because those claims cause harm.
Those claims do not inherently cause harm! They have the potential to cause harm, but so does every single other claim/thing/belief/idea ever conceived or used by mankind. There is no reason to single out all of religion because of its extremists. Every group has extremists or the potential for extremists. Although what he says next is really what falls under the ignorant atheist BS.
They can drain your wallet.
So what! Is it your wallet? No! Was the money given willingly? Most of the time, yes! And in the times where religious believers are scammed out of their money laws are usually broken and the perpetrator can be taken to court. And the vast majority of money given to Churches will also go towards some kind of charity work instead of just going into the preacher’s pocket. Oh, and did I ask if it was your money? If it is not yours, why do you care? Getting rid of religion is not going to stop people from scamming others out of their money. Those who end up scammed probably should have seen the warning signs. As for rest of the people, those in the vast majority, they generally do not miss the small amount they tithe to their church which helps keep their church, and various charities, running.
They will waste your time.
According to who? Anti-theists who are hell bent on making others think, act, and believe like they do? This is an opinion, not a fact! For a group whose favorite buzzwords include “rational thinking” you would think they could recognize when they are giving a personal opinion as fact. I think watching sports on TV is a waste of time. But you will not see me going around telling everyone who enjoys it to stop.
They can become the basis for irrational, unnecessary, and dangerous laws.
And what cannot? This goes back to what I said earlier, any kind of idea, claim, belief, you name it, when it is taken to an extreme it can become the basis for irrational, unnecessary, and dangerous laws. Just because you happen to have an irrational hatred of all things religious does not make religion more of a catalyst for this kind of behavior.
They offer false hope that will never come to fruition.
Again with the personal opinion. When will atheists learn that just because it comes out of their mouths, it does not make it a fact? Also, in some cases the hope they offer does come to fruition. For example, there are cases where families becoming religious together have made them stronger and closer as a family. Or a person struggling with drug addiction who, through religion, cleans their life up. Could this happen in other circumstances as well? Yes. But does that make it any less valid? No. There are also the studies that have shown being religious will make you a happier person. That sure seems to be an example of hope coming to fruition.
They can make you kill or hate or injure others.
More taking the extremes and applying it to the whole. Politics can do the same thing. Should we get rid of it? In some areas of Europe wearing the wrong soccer jersey in public can get you killed. Should we ban soccer? How about we focus on the people who are actually doing the killing and the specific beliefs that are causing that behavior instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Last time I checked, religion has not made me, or any religious person I have ever known, fly a plane into a building. That kind of behavior seems to be limited to a small group with very specific types of thinking.
They make you believe in fiction.
Again, according to who? Oh yeah, anti-theists hell bent on making others think/act/believe like they do.
They make you fight against reality.
See previous comment.
They brainwash children and adults alike.
This argument has been refuted so many times it is no longer funny. Oh, and see previous comment.
We can’t “live and let live” when we see how much damage these beliefs — as silly as some might seem — have inflicted on people we love, and how much pain these beliefs have caused by people who took them too seriously.
I think one of the commenters responded best to this little bit:
Fundie Troll
Hemant, you can’t “live and let live”? Then you are guilty of the very thing that you accuse the religious of on a daily basis – forcing your system of beliefs on others.
The road that you are travelling down – and I will admit that the religious right in this country is guilty of the same thing – leads to tyranny. You MUST live and let live, because the only alternative is a society where freedom does not exist.
Fundie Troll makes a good point. The atheists who share the same mindset of this post are guilty of the same intolerance and bigotry the constantly decry in believers.



  1. Jake my boy, you seem to have confused knowledge with faith and reality with fantasy.

    1. Jake The Angry Snake claims that 'the biggest thing in an atheist's life is that they don't believe in something'. HUH? that is a rather broad stroke of the stereotypical brush. From a lifetime of experience, not believing in something that doesn't exist is actually of very little concern. i don't waste my time on the nonexistent. I don't accept lots of extraordinary supernatural claims as fact or truth, such as The Tooth Fairy, Bigfoot, alien abductions, Santa Claus...nor a dog that speaks perfect English out of his ass, which by the way has a better chance of existing than an invisible, mute, all-knowing, all-powerful, egomaniacal baby sitter who cannot even be defined, so much as seen. We KNOW dogs exist and we KNOW they all have assholes, which is infinitely more than we know about any gods, not to mention more than you or any other theist can tell me about any god.

    2. Jake The Angry Snake's analogy about basketball, while amusing, needs to be carried a bit further. Of course Jake the Snake keeps his dislike of basketball to himself. He has no reason not to. No one is trying to force him or his friends and loved ones to play the game. Neither he, nor his loved ones are being threatened, fined, incarcerated, killed or losing any liberties because they don't participate in, or at least enjoy, the game. Jake The Snake would probably feel a bit differently if this were happening. This IS what happens with religion.

    3. I don't ever worry about being bilked out of money by superstitious claims. It has never been my money and it never will be. However, it could be my mother's money or a good friend's and i find fraud repugnant regardless of the flavor. In my humble opinion, religion sells empty promises which it never has to pay out and is impossible to collect on, so it is fraud. REMEMBER, i said MY opinion. If this faulty, fly-by-night insurance policy makes people feel better, then good for them. Drugs, alcohol, dreams and certain cranial trauma also create deluded states that make people feel better, but ultimately one usually has to deal with reality.

    4. Instilling the fear of Hell and eternal torture in children and/or on their loved ones is CRUEL. It is indoctrination (brainwashing) of a very loathsome kind.

    My opinion, most atheists don't give a rat's ass about your silly, childish superstitions and imaginary friends. We DO care about keeping their subjective, regressive and oppressive nature from impeding our liberties and advancements in science, medicine and technology.

    KEEP STATE AND CHURCH SEPARATE. The Founding Fathers, even those who were religious and even Christian, saw the folly of allowing subjective superstition into lawmaking, politics and government. The USA is a secular democratic republic...NOT a theocracy.

    1. Skeptic7 is a very biased, ignorant person. I'd feel sorry for you if you had an ounce of respect for diversity

  2. btw, "STATE" specifically includes public schools, so...KEEP IGNORANT SUPERSTITIOUS (aka RELIGIOUS) "BULLSHIT" OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS

  3. Jake, I see from one of your posts on Friendly Atheist that you are Mormon. Your church sends missionaries all over the world to convert people. But when Atheists attempt to win people over to Atheism, you complain. Why the double standard?

    Let me rewrite part of your post to make a point.

    Friendly Atheist: People who believe in werewolves will waste your time.

    Jake: According to who? Anti-werewolvists who are hell bent on making others think, act, and believe like they do? The idea that werewolves don't exist is an opinion, not a fact! For a group whose favorite buzzwords include “rational thinking” you would think they could recognize when they are giving a personal opinion as fact.

    The fact is that there is no evidence for werewolves. The fact is that there is no evidence for God. We atheists believe that the world would be better off if everyone only believed what there was evidence for. We work to convince people of that, not with weapons, like the Crusaders or Al Qeada has done, but with debate and discussion.

    1. You're such a big fat liar, dumb-ass.

  4. Anonymous,
    I have no problem with proselytizing. What I am criticizing is the manner in which these atheist groups are attempting to go about it. It is is almost completely negative and the majority of the time attempts to insult religious believers and/or grossly misrepresent them. This is not how you go about bringing people to your side.

  5. Well, we can debate whether or not believers are grossly misrepresented, but I did want to touch on the "insult religious believers" claim. I can understand how you feel. Much of atheism is specifically about disproving theism rather than proving anything else. Unfortunately, I think this is just part of the nature of atheism. An atheist can show evidence for evolution, for the big bang, and for medicine that doesn't need miracles, which many secular scientists and magazines do every day. But that doesn't stop people from believing in God. They still see him as working behind the scenes, even when you can explain exactly how a specific thing happened by scientific law. Sooner or later, you need to say "...and there is no evidence for God" if people are to understand that it is likely he doesn't exist.

    Think of it this way. Say your friend believed the horoscopes in the newspaper controlled her life. She fully agreed with you that science played a big part in the working of the universe, but she believed that the horoscopes still tweeked it. There was nothing you could teach her that would contradict what she believes because the horoscopes are so general that she is always able to make some excuse for how they affect her day. Eventually, you'd have to say "there is no evidence that horoscopes affect people's lives. It's all just an over generalization that people can always find a way to fit into their life." Your friend will get mad at you, "How dare you question my belief in horoscopes! You're just one of those anti-horoscope people that just hates anyone who believes in horoscopes! You're so bigoted!" It is hard for them to understand that you don't hate them, you are just pointing out that there is no evidence to support their belief.

    Karl Popper, the philosopher of science, pointed out that you can't absolutely prove any theory. You can't prove the theory that big foot doesn't exist. He might just be hiding somewhere. You can't prove the theory that aliens haven't visited Earth. They might have an invisibility shield. You can't prove the theory that fairies don't exist. They might be just too small to see. What you can is disprove theories. Is there evidence on this Earth that can only be explained by the existence of a God? It seems to me that the answer is "no". Saying that is my claim that I think is logical. It isn't bigoted or mean. It's just a statement of fact. If you think it is wrong, you should show me the holes in the logic, not declare that I am wrong to even question your faith.

    Teaching positive science is never going to stop people from believing in God. People will always tack God on there somewhere even if have no evidence for him simply because they like the idea that he exists. They will always come up with ways for him to affect the world without leaving any scientifically testable trace. If a person wants other people to stop believing in God, they need to point out that there is no evidence for God and that they are saying this not to be an anti but just because they believe it to be true. It doesn't make them a bigot. If you can believe in God without evidence, then you can believe in unicorns without evidence or elves without evidence or dragons without evidence. We can debate whether religion creates more good or more evil, but to me, believing something without evidence is a very bad habit to get into and it is something that should be opposed even if it makes people angry.

    1. You can shove your sorry lies up your ass for all I care.

  6. ^Thank you so much, Anonymous.

    I would just like to elaborate slightly on his/her fantastic response about the existence of Werewolves/God being an opinion as opposed to fact.

    Just like previously stated, to state that because we cannot prove the nonexistence of werewolves or God means it's an opinion is completely inaccurate. In science, you do not need to prove a negative.

    Consider Bertand Russell's Teapot Analogy - Russell wrote that if he claimed that a teapot were orbiting the sun, it would be nonsense for him to expect others not to doubt him just because they could not prove him wrong. Is there a possibility that a teapot is currently orbiting around the sun? Yes. Is there any evidence at all that would lead to that belief? Absolutely not. Is there a possibility that there is an all knowing, all seeing, invisible God that decides whether or not we spend an eternity in Heaven or Hell when we die? Yes. Is there any evidence at all that would lead to that belief? Absolutely not.

    1. If I didn't know better, I'd say that you're a shallow jerk who thinks that seeing is believing. FYI, seeing isn't always believing. So keep your atheism to yourself.

  7. Jake you're full of shit

    1. No, you are, dumb-ass! If you hate this blog, then piss the hell off instead of whining at its maker.